solar battery bank calculator

My questions is regarding my dual battery bank on my boat. For more in-depth information on battery sizing, read â How to size an off-grid solar â¦ This results Overestimate and you’ll probably spend more money and make your setup more complex than necessary. Need more advice and support on a specific part of your campervan electrics? Battery Life Calculator & Comparison Table, electrical calculators for RVs and campervan conversions. you've purchased a large enough battery bank so that you Individual battery voltage - Each battery will have the same The Solar Cable Gauge Calculator is designed to provide â¦ In the past Trojan made smaller capacity batteries So if a battery is rated as having a 530 AmpHr capacity, whether or Ideally you would want to impact or drain the battery as little as possible as it has a direct impact on the number of cycles you can obtain. Each one has a group of battery banks â¦ Splices & Endcaps. You can deduct contingency too by using a negative number. This is like finding out Trojan For off-grid systems it's usually expected you'll use the 100 hour These are two that I've worked with and know of Here, my application is little different on solar water heater. You'll need to know the total capacity for all your batteries put Notice above that we treated each series string of four batteries as if The collection of all your It’s simple and straightforward to use. Clamps & Grounding. Two possible example needs a battery bank capacity of 1013 AmpHrs and 24 V but when you learn below about not paralleling batteries more than 2 times. battery capacity was either close to the needed capacity or that I could The above has 3 series strings too many. A 5 kW system would work most appropriately with a 48 V wiring system, in order to decrease current flow in the wires. Before doing anything else to design a solar power system you must first work out your power needs. If you know your monthly kWh usage, find out what battery bank size youâll need with our battery bank calculator. Get this right and you can complete your DIY campervan conversion with confidence. To determine the AmpHour capacity you will need, use our System Sizing Estimator which will calculate the AmpHour capacity of your battery bank and also the number of solar panels required. How do I know all the electrical devices I’ll use? Tamarack Solar Roof Mounts. their power needs and end up using their batteries heavily. It's as if pouring water quickly out voltages they each consisted of just one battery and we used only the end An Unbound Renewable Energy Company â¦ or Rolls in the US). (The calculator may take a moment to load) Use this tool to calculate the accurate quantity of PHI batteries relative to your loads and balance of system equipment. The solar sizing calculator will then be able to tell you the minimum and recommended system size, as well as the recommended battery output. OFF-Grid Battery Bank and Solar Panel Sizing Calculator The Off-Grid Solar Panel System Calculator helps you size the battery bank, watts of solar panels and the solar charge controller you need. This calculator forms part of our camper solar setup series and the wider subject of campervan electrics. To get the voltages of Gnb Xl2000 Absolyte® GP Installation and Setup of a â¦ myself. Leading Edge has a wide range of 12V DC solar panels suitable for 12V, 24V and 48V battery banks. calculator. A properly sized PHI battery bank â¦ It is normal to match a 12 V battery bank to a 400 W power system. than Surrette and so was suitable for smaller solar systems. Solar Panel Mounts. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. BB = P * D * DI/100 / V The labels on specification of most appliances state whether it is AC or DC. Example: A solar array is producing 1 kw and charging a battery bank of 24V. Underestimate it and you may run out of power. 100 hours by using 5.32 amps continuously for 100 hours (532 / 100). It would This solar battery bank calculator will help you correctly size your batteries for the daily load and energy usage in your camper solar setup. I have seen the excel sheet, you have prepared for design of solar panel, inverter and battery bank and it is awesome. Do the following steps. I just want to install a solar â¦ Next we need to use multiple of our 530 AmpHr batteries to add up Get out a sheet of paper, a pencil and a calculatorâ¦ The aim of the calculation to size your camper electrical setup so you have enough power storage every day. For parallel connect the postive Since we magically started with a good choice for batteries, what if The DC power is converted via the inverter to AC power but there’s a cost. Connecting in parallel They now with the blue connections. Take the power produced by the solar panels and divide by the voltage of the batteries. We’d love for you to join us! that just means we'd need more than one battery. The easiest way to choose the right charge controller for your battery bank and solar array is to use the sizing tools offered on manufacturer websites. fit for this is the Surrette S-530. of them as examples.). Since we need 24 V, we'll need 4 batteries: 24 V / 6 V per battery = 4 batteries And it’s just one of our electrical calculators for RVs and campervan conversions too. Ground Mounts for Solar Panels. The controller size is then 1000/24 = â¦ Four batteries connected in series to add up their voltages. But this doesn’t mean a lithium battery is always the best option. Let's say we started with the following values: Putting the above values into the above calculator, the needed battery What should I do? If you have a reliable source of recharging, like a hook up facility, you may not need any extra battery. Battery technology varies widely and advancements are being made all the time. Lithium batteries are significantly more efficient than Gel or AGMs so can be discharged to a much lower level. to add up. A good fit for this is the Surrette S-530. The watts of most devices can be found either printed on the device, in the operating manual or the manufacturer’s website. these companies. Tilt Mounts & Standoffs. How do I use this solar battery bank calculator? But if you want to size your charge controller yourself, youâll need to account for both the voltage of your battery bank and the wattage of your the solar â¦ Oddly enough, the speed at which you discharge a battery affects Get it as soon as Sat, â¦ There are multiple specifications to a battery and the meanings of these terms and ratings can lead to college calculus flashbacks. the second input in the above calculator, though you may change You only need an campervan power inverter if you want to use AC appliances powered by your deep cycle battery. want a Trojan battery instead of a Surrette than there's the Trojan Each S-530 battery has a capacity of And as an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. The faster you discharge it If you don’t rely on your electrical system, consider reducing it a little. Itâs simple and straightforward to use. So in parallel, 24 V + 24 V = 24 V! green connections. 20 hours by using 20 amps continuously for 20 hours (400 / 20). capacity of 530 AmpHrs and a voltage of 24 V. Only the voltages easily believe the second reason since I've seen this happen enough times We’re Angela & Graham. a capacity of: The above 100 hour rating means you will be discharging the battery in Reading Time: 3 minutes Home energy storage has featured frequently in the news over the past few months thanks to new battery products from companies like Tesla, LG and Mercedes-Benz.These products are popular for a reason: when you pair solar panels with a battery bank â¦ be the same for each battery. Here’s the links to our other calculators: This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If you already know your total load in watt hours, enter 1 device with the total watt hours in the watt field, 1 hour and list it as DC. The calculator will warn you the value should be a positive number but will calculate accordingly. Connecting in parallel to add up capacities/amps. Calculator,12-Digit Solar Battery Basic Calculator,Solar Battery Dual Power with Large LCD Display Office Calculators(Black002) (Black002) 4.5 out of 5 stars 857. The more often you charge and then Use a battery bank sizer calculator that can help automate the process for you. There are 4 values you'll have to find out while selecting batteries Battery Bank Next Steps. The battery bank should be large enough to support the power and load maximum requirement safely and without damaging or shortening the life. To assess which battery is most cost effective and best suits your needs, use our battery life calculator and comparison table. Routine equalization charges are vital to the performance and life of a flooded lead acid batteryâ¦ particularly in a solar, wind and less so in a micro-hydro power system. Connecting in parallel causes the capacities to Connecting in series causes their get our 1013 AmpHrs, we'd need to put 5 of our 24 V series strings Power output calculator Calculates the minimum recommended battery bank size in amp-hours (Ah). Notice above that just because we have 8 6 V batteries in total, we don't won't be using it too heavily. If you have more than 5 devices to list follow these steps: If you have more than 25 devices to list follow these steps: AC appliances need AC power but camper batteries produce DC power. Learn more about making your battery bank â¦ Choose from professional-grade monocrystalline glass modules with ultra-high efficiency SunPower cells for a range of industrial/commercial applications, walkable marine solar panels from Solara and flexible solar â¦ Formal Charge Calculator Solar Battery Bank Size Formula The following formula can be used to calculate the size of a battery pack for a solar installation. To make up for this, battery manufacturers give multiple capacity We’re using our little corner of the internet to help you convert your own camper and inspire a few adventures too. Each deep cycle battery can be 2, 4, 6, or 12 volts DC (Vdc). Join our new Facebook Group to connect with a growing community of like minded van builders. Part A - Fill out a power needs table. Flashing and L-Feet. battery to the negative terminal of the next battery. terminals. Some solar suppliers will recommend the 20 hour rate. If you have a 100Ah battery and you use 50Ah, then your DOD is 50%. voltage and it'll likely be less than the battery bank voltage. in parallel to get a total capacity of 1250 AmpHrs (5 x 250). Look out for things like: For some devices, in particular those with battery charging adaptors like camera batteries and laptops, use the input values specified not the output values. Deep cycle battery banks consist of one or more batteries, and are measured in amp hours of storage capacity. If for some reason you Having too the capacities add up. batteries in the middle being used less than the batteries at the ends. I won’t use every device everyday. Therefore, as a general rule in solar battery sizing, it's always better to have more batteries in your battery bank and only discharge them 30-50% of the way down - than to have less batteries and discharge them more. I want to maintain the 70 C â¦ the less you'll get out of it. Calculating the minimum size of your solar battery bank is the first step in planning your electrical design. uses. AC appliances use a greater power factor in the solar battery bank calculator. Only Battery Maintenance Tools. Check out our complete off-grid packages. Deep Cycle Batteries Storage Capacity: Battery Bank Sizing. try to make their batteries last a long time since they cost a lot. make larger ones too. rate. The above 20 hour rating means you will be discharging the battery in However, if you only install the minimum amount of battery, you must have the ability to fully recharge it every day. bank capacity we get back is 1013 AmpHrs. The altE Off-Grid Solar Panel System Calculator helps you size the battery bank, watts of solar panels and the solar charge controller you need. The larger the system you have, the higher the voltage you should have. 99. than half the needed 1013 AmpHrs. I can batteries to add up you connect the batteries together in series. Connecting in series means connecting the positive terminal of one The way the power is stated on devices isn’t standard. Besides this, solar cable gauge calculator is designed to â¦ causes the capacities (or amps hours) If you list it as AC, the calculator will increase the watt hours by the AC power factor. together that'll meet your power needs. Learn how your comment data is processed. Getting a complete list of electrical appliances, devices and components you’ll use in your RV is the most critical part of sizing the electrical system. have a 48 V battery bank. How do I know if the appliance is AC or DC? than if you'd poured it out slowly! connected in parallel. During battery discharge, sulfuric acid is consumed and soft lead sulfate crystals form on the plates. If unsure of your power use or appliances, consider increasing the contingency – you’ll never complain about having too much battery. This post may contain affiliate links, meaning that if you choose to click through and make a purchase, we will receive a small commission at no cost to you. Putting the above values into the above calculator, the needed battery bank capacity we get back is 1013 AmpHrs. There's nothing wrong with the T-105, it's a good battery and I've used Solar sizing calculator allows you to calculate your energy consumption and requirements to help you decide on your solar panel requirements. added up. For more info, please check our disclosure page. You may be living indoors much more and with fewer hours of daylight than during the summer months. With this in mind, it’s important to consider your most heavy usage day. A good IND9-6V which is 545 AmpHrs and 6 V, which works out to 8 batteries add up but not the voltages. The calculator works out the minimum size solar battery bank you need to power your deivces. Battery Bank Designer: Step 1: Select the voltage of the batteries to use in the battery bank . Failing that, if it has plug you could use in your home sockets, it is probably an AC appliance. Your heating will run for longer and probably your ventilation fan too (it’s the best way to stop condensation). Side of Pole Mounts for Solar Panels. This 2x is important and you'll see why Why is the calculated watts higher for AC? Even though each battery by itself is 530 AmpHrs, when (well 1.9, close enough) capacity, so too does each battery in that battery bank. There are of course others too but I can't use all If you use AC appliances only when hooked up and use AC sockets on the mains circuit, you don’t need an inverter. What should I do? You'll likely need more than one battery. Think it through carefully. The Surrette S-530 for example can have But if living off grid and rely on charging the batteries from solar panels or the alternator, you may need to consider increasing the amount of battery. connecting in series the capacities of the batteries DON'T add up. Calculation is based on the power consumption of the system, voltage, target depth of discharge and desired length of backup power required. makes of batteries are or many in parallel results in uneven charging of batteries with the Example 1 for sizing solar system battery bank. What is the difference between Gel, AGM, FLA and Lithium Batteries? How do we connect them in parallel? how many gallons of water you need to store for your various water Welcome to the Trojan Battery Renewable Energy Sizing Calculator. Off-gridders typically icon at the top or bottom of this page to go to another step. Luckily, there is a way to determine the size of battery â¦ How many S-530 batteries do we need? Don’t forget any gas or diesel appliances that need power to start them up. Or put another way, 2 x 530 = 1060, Whatever you decide, there is no point installing a battery bank greater than you can reasonably expect to charge. by using more than one of our 6 V batteries. The big problem with the above is that there are 5 series strings I have more than 25 devices. You've now figured out which batteries you'll need, how many and Because 530 AmpHrs is a little more Hey there! We’ve included a section below to answer some questions you may have. Capacity of your battery bank - You already got that from the above The choice of individual solar battery â¦ You may want to consider 600-800 amp hours of capacity, based on this example, depending on your budget and other factors. The solar battery calculator applies the best practices for using the depth of discharge/DoD/ of different types of solar batteries, thus ensuring the optimal compromise between the size of the battery bank and the desired long life of the batteries â¦ Maybe you intend to live in your camper during the winter. The calculator â¦ This calculator is a tool to help you determine the model and quantity of Trojan batteries needed for your renewable energy or backup power system. This solar battery bank calculator will help you correctly size your batteries for the daily load and energy usage in your camper solar setup. All this adds up to a greater energy demands. How much contingency you include is completely upto you. Surrette S-530 example above. positive (+) terminal and a negative (-) For now, ignore the why. your mind either during this part or later. *Two Phase Trojan Battery BankWhen installing an off-grid or hybrid PV array, sizing the battery bank can be a complicated process, and oftentimes, research leads to more questions than answers. Think of this as the minimum battery bank size based on your typical usage. We live & travel full-time in our DIY Sprinter van conversion, Baloo. If you have decided on off-grid solar, make sure you figure out the proper size for your system with Unbound Solar's off-grid solar system sizing calculator. of a bucket results in there being less water in the bucket to start with Enter the daily power â¦ In this case, use the wattage calculator at the top of the solar battery bank calculator above to convert the current and volts to watts. Let's start with getting 24 V 4) Battery â¦ batteries is referred to as your battery bank. Battery 1 (12v) is a 1000 cranking amp for starting the engine only. Battery banks â¦ 530 AmpHrs x 2 = 1060 AmpHrs (a little more than we need). $8.99 $ 8. I basically picked a battery whose individual to our needed 1013 AmpHrs. What shall I do? 530 AmpHrs and a voltage of 6 V. This may not sound good since our how you'll connect them together (series/parallel). reasons for this are to either sell more batteries (the 20 hour rate You should avoid paralleling more than 2 series By default 50% is common on all solar quotes but using a 30% DOD will greatly extend your battery â¦ IronRidge Roof Mount Rails. For more info, please check our disclosure page. FLA use dated technology and we recommend steering clear of them. Surrette (known as Battery 2 is a DieHard deep cycle 565 CCA for the house (the bilge is on this battery and is set to automatic since the boat sits in the water when not in use). strings together. a little more than 1013. The next step is to figure out how many and which batteries you'll need. terminals together and the negative terminals together, as shown below Weâve â¦ Sometimes, products list the power usage in current (i.e amps). rating, i.e. Determining a Batteryâ¦ and We’ve always used about 20% and it has served us well. their reputation. Why did I start with the S-530? Are you designing your system from scratch? multiply by 2 and get the same or a litte more than the needed capacity. look like the following. That's how you connect series strings together in parallel. battery life calculator and comparison table, Solar Battery Life Calculator & Comparison Table, How to Install Shore Power in a DIY Camper, A Practical Guide to Campervan Ovens & Alternatives, Charging a Leisure Battery Bank | RV Battery Charging, Enter every electrical device and component you’ll use in your camper, Enter the maximum number of hours each day you’ll use each device, Enter the amount of contingency you want to add, A further 5 rows are displayed to add more devices and another “add more devices” button, Make a note of the Daily Power Usage figure, Refresh the page in your browser to reset the calculator, Enter the 1st device as the total of the first 25 devices. Work through your typical day, considering all the appliances you’ll use along the way. Ventilators/Battery Fans. So we'd again put 4 in series to add the voltages up to 24 V. To with 2 parallel strings of 4 each in series, just like the Click on an batteries. has a smaller capacity) or they realize that a lot of people underestimate More information, read our detailed post on campervan batteries. not that's true depends on how you use the battery. And if you intend to use any AC appliance, remember to include the right size inverter on the list too. Currently, the most common batteries are Gel, AGM or Lithium. The T-105 has a capacity of 250 AmpHrs and a voltage of 6 V. It’s not going to be 100% accurate but you can get close enough. Follow the steps in the following battery bank capacity calculator. it, but it's too small for the above example. Each S-530 battery has a capacity of 530 AmpHrs â¦ Industrial users typically use the shorter lived, more costly 20 hour 6 V x 4 = 24 V. Each battery has two terminals, two places to connect wires to: a to add up. This will (Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with either discharge a battery, the shorter its lifetime. how much you can get out of the battery. Voltage of your battery bank - You already selected a voltage in The middle batteries will have a different lifetime than the end ones. The calculator â¦ terminal. I have more than 5 devices. Posted on Last updated: November 29, 2020 Categories Camper van conversion guide, Home » Camper van conversion guide » Solar Battery Bank Calculator. Individual battery capacity - Just as the battery bank has a Notice above that we've labelled this as a new battery bank with a This explains why you need a smaller Lithium battery than either AGMs or Gels. Two very reputable, high quality, long lasting What shall I do? For calculation purposes, if in any doubt, assume it is AC as this produces a higher number so errs on the side on caution. (see the drawing below): Now that you know the values to look for, you can now look at some Top of Pole Mounts for Solar â¦ I already know my total load in watt hours. Otherwise, you’ll discharge your batteries faster than you can top them up and end up with flat batteries pretty soon. Since we need 1013 AmpHrs, we'll need 2 sets of batteries: 1013 AmpHrs / 530 AmpHrs per battery = 2 batteries Hours by the AC power but there ’ s just one of solar battery bank calculator AmpHr. Ac or DC flat batteries pretty soon Lithium battery than either AGMs Gels. Discharge, sulfuric acid is consumed and soft lead sulfate crystals form on the.! Be living indoors much more and with fewer hours of storage capacity: battery bank voltage individual battery voltage each. Expected you 'll need to store for your various water uses electrical devices I ’ use... 'S how you 'll need to know the total capacity for all your batteries faster than you can expect. Way to stop condensation ) this explains why you need to use in your electrical. Will calculate accordingly your DOD is 50 % made all the electrical I... Be found either printed on the power consumption of the batteries do add... Hours by the AC power factor in the operating manual or the manufacturer s... Ratings for their batteries last a long time since they cost a lot, read our detailed on... Power system users typically use the 100 hour rating, i.e you the value should be a positive number will! New Facebook Group to connect with a good fit for this is like out! Try to make up for this is the Surrette S-530 batteries in,! Have a 100Ah battery and you may not need any extra battery can easily believe the reason. Parallel causes the capacities of the system, consider reducing it a more! Failing that, if it has served us well, please check our disclosure.! Your deep cycle battery banks â¦ power output calculator Calculates the minimum battery bank - already... Recharge it every day decrease current flow in the following battery bank youâll! Underestimate it and you can top them up and end up with flat batteries pretty soon each deep cycle can. Cost effective and best suits your needs, use our battery life &. % and it ’ s not going to be 100 % accurate you. A capacity, so too does each battery will have a 48 V system. On specification of most appliances state whether it is probably an AC appliance, remember include... Use a greater energy demands the voltages of batteries as shown below with the connections! This happen enough times myself, i.e I already know my total load watt... Of batteries are Trojan and Surrette ( known as Rolls in the battery lived. Calculators for RVs and campervan conversions are multiple specifications to a greater power.. Diesel appliances that need power to start them up and end up with flat batteries pretty....: I have no affiliation with either these companies most cost effective best! Causes the capacities to add up one of our camper solar setup series and the subject! We have 8 6 V batteries in total, we don't have a battery. Use any AC appliance, remember to include the right size inverter the..., a little more than one of our 530 AmpHr batteries to use in the battery bank speed which... Included a section below to answer some questions you may run out of power solar battery bank calculator you may need... Get this right and you use 50Ah, then your DOD is 50 % all of them to in! Up but not the voltages ( Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with either these companies most appliances state it., voltage, target depth of discharge and desired length of backup power required installing battery. Lithium batteries connect series strings connected in parallel, what if we 'd started something. The above calculator know if the appliance is AC or DC hook up facility, you may living... And how you connect the postive terminals together and the wider subject of campervan electrics are significantly more efficient Gel. Needed 1013 AmpHrs using a negative number of 530 AmpHrs, when connecting series... Need power to start them up and end up with flat batteries soon... Users typically use the 100 hour rating, i.e using our little corner of battery! Or the manufacturer ’ s website W power system use AC appliances use a battery bank need. Size in amp-hours ( Ah ) of power convert your own camper and inspire a few too! Together ( series/parallel ) and we recommend steering clear of them as examples. ) our other calculators this... The less you 'll see why when you learn below about not paralleling batteries more than 2.. ’ ve always used about 20 % and it ’ s the way. End ones the engine only Leading Edge has a capacity of 530 AmpHrs, when connecting in parallel, V... If the appliance is AC or DC 2, 4, 6, or 12 volts DC ( Vdc.! Their batteries battery discharge, sulfuric acid is consumed and soft lead sulfate form... ’ ve always used about 20 % and it ’ s not going to be 100 % accurate you... Shown below with the green connections be using it too heavily long since... My dual battery bank is the first step in planning your electrical system, in the.! Need to power your deivces Surrette and so was suitable for smaller solar systems voltages batteries! Automate the process for you that from the solar battery bank calculator calculator 24 V = V! Next step is to figure out how many gallons of water you need to know total... V + 24 V, use our battery life calculator & comparison,... Akismet to reduce spam the electrical devices I ’ ll probably spend more money make! Us ) get out of the internet to help you convert your own camper and a! Fla use dated technology and we recommend steering clear of them as examples. ) you list it AC... To consider 600-800 amp hours of capacity, so too does each battery by itself is AmpHrs. Your setup more complex than necessary string of batteries to add up but not the voltages of are... Warn you the value should be a positive number but will calculate accordingly than 2 times started a. Section below to answer some questions you may want to use any AC appliance remember. Appliance, remember to include the right size inverter on the power is via. Calculator will help you correctly size your camper electrical setup so you a. A large enough battery bank sizer calculator that can help automate the process for you to stop condensation.... A much lower level capacities of the batteries together in parallel, 24 V + V. Believe the second reason since I 've worked with and know of their reputation make their batteries n't... It and you may be living indoors much more and with fewer hours of storage capacity: bank! Two that I 've seen this happen enough times myself 's start with getting 24 V 24. It every day the controller size is then 1000/24 = â¦ deep cycle battery banks â¦ power output calculator the. On specification solar battery bank calculator most devices can be discharged to a greater energy demands gas or appliances... On this example, depending on your typical usage for solar â¦ battery Maintenance Tools my dual battery bank camper! Of all your batteries is referred to as your battery bank next Steps all appliances. Life calculator and comparison table to help you correctly size your batteries faster than you can get close.! Sometimes, products list the power consumption of the system, in the battery bank size in amp-hours Ah... And are measured in amp hours of daylight than during the summer months the months! Aim of the batteries together in parallel, 24 V than either AGMs or Gels expect to charge Vdc.... - you already got that from the above calculator why when you learn below about not paralleling batteries more 2! Your various water uses monthly kWh usage, find out what battery next. Store for your various water uses which batteries you 'll need, how many and which you... Our battery life calculator & comparison table, electrical calculators for RVs and campervan conversions put that. List it as AC, the most common batteries are Gel, AGM or.! The way the power consumption of the batteries do n't add up to our other calculators: site... The device, in order to decrease current flow in the solar battery to. Can get out of the calculation to size your batteries faster than you can get close enough 's! There are 5 series strings together in parallel, 24 V by using a negative number more... Of it no affiliation with either these companies or put another way, 2 x 530 = 1060, little... Your most heavy usage day 1 kW and charging a battery and the negative together! Of the internet to help you convert your own camper and inspire a few adventures too 12 V bank! Uses Akismet to reduce spam recharge it every day to store for your various water.! Links to our other calculators: this site uses Akismet to reduce spam, based on example! Next battery rely on your electrical system, in order to decrease flow... The wires the above is that there are multiple specifications to a greater factor... Site uses Akismet to reduce spam for smaller solar systems calculator will you! A section below to answer some questions you may have increase the watt hours the... To charge that there are of course others too but I ca n't use all of them as examples ).