Piaggio P180 vs. other turboprops. Trying new things can be fun and once in awhile can advance a technology. Adam S Frisch wrote: Sinus wave, saw-tooth noise … I love airplanes, pure and simple. At the time we were led to believe that Linden Blue was brought in to “finish” the Starshp project, not to give it the go-ahead. [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT8qKXPJKdw], [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLrO45MeaJU], Starship: First flight in february 1986. Just in a range of size/carrying-capacities. The quiet factor is something everybody notices, except Mac. The Piaggio is a much better airplane-- the Starship was just too heavy, and didn't meet the performance goals. Competition in a man’s sport: top six women in early US flight, Remembering a Christmas tragedy 50 years later, The forever weekend: flying my Cheetah to Canada. The gear was locked down with some braces on the actuator links on the nose wheel. The set up is: ... Standard avionics on the Avanti are the Universal UNS1-K and a Collins 85 five tube EFIS, and on the Avanti II … The first, N8285Q/NC-50, is listed for $1,400,000 in Washington state. Beech dominated the turboprop market with its King Air family. Mitigating Coronavirus Economic Effects and Finding New Business Opportunities. PT6A-66B. I agree, Tom. Hi Mark, Wondering which one of you Starship owners is buzzing over my house??? Required fields are marked *. It was the people of North Ireland, as I recall, that footed the bill for the Lear fiasco through tax donations to build a factory and support development. Page 1 of 1 Login / Dealer Login Register. With the added weight, the performance numbers also fell far short of the objectives. Beech did not know how to market new airplanes. Mac, interesting and overall accurate story. Air Tractor AT 802/802A/802AF/802F I love looks and the history of the Starship and think the Avanti is a lame copy :-). I too have always enjoyed your writing. The actions of others caused that not to happen. Powered by Pratt & Whitney PT6A-66 turboprops 634 kW each, designed and built by Piaggio, … Both the Starship and the Piaggio fall in that category. Most of the Comments are correct regarding increased weight. And now he is a part-time corporate pilot flying a King Air 350. Turns out, it was actually the Raytheon Board when they got the bill for the program!!! It is never the acquisition cost as many of us know, its the maintenance and sustainability costs. Back to the STARSHIP— Pilots don’t buy airplanes, CEOs buy airplanes and the STARSHIP didn’t look tradational, what a CEO or Chairman would spend a few million dollars buying. The picture found on a French website speaks quite a lot (translation should be trivial): Avanti and Starship top views and specifications comparison. I’ll bet ZERO. I think Beech did get some good technology experience out of it but probably not a billion dollars worth. The wing and canard can both be flapped for significantly higher CL, and the third surface in the back usually has the elevator on it, but sometimes that function is handled at the canard. The rest were leased because almost nobody wanted to sign on for an open-ended conventional ownership. Another factor is that, with regard to selling an unusual configuration in the corporate market, a conservative design has an advantage. As a kid I was obsessed with it, and had all the Flying Magazine articles on it saved. I’m sure an aeronautical engineer from another era would of preferred Lindberg attempt his crossing in his design. Most paper airplanes never fly, and certainly almost none are certified and produced. Because of their unusual-ness in the broader aviation world, many pusher designs are relatively famous. Landing speed is surprisingly similar, 150+-3 km/h for both. You do not have to be Richard Collins or Ernest Gann - simply a GA pilot with a story you'd share with friends sitting in the hangar. A real “winner”. Praise the designers and builders of such craft. This will be our first comparison Better Aircraft - Piaggio P180 Avanti EVO vs … I cringe still when the Starship is described by so many as high-tech, and futuristic. BTW. Turboprops hold a vital fuel efficiency edge. However the Starship has a true canard configuration, while the Avanti is a three-surface aircraft, with a regular horizontal stabiliser. Because the forward wing sweep was obviously critical to airplane performance and stall behavior, lots of monitors and backup equipment were required. The Avanti has thin straight laminar flow wings that give very little drag. But in Italy the Avanti is used mainly by the Air Force, Police, Carabinieri, Navy, Coast Guard, even the intellicence services. Looks to me like the Piaggio design has less of a divergent nozzle effect, but still some, which I guess is what accounts for the crazy noise it makes and no, it can’t be good for the prop. But to have enough lift at low speeds for adequate pitch control with wing flaps extended, the Starship forward wing had to be too big to not stall at higher airspeeds. His father, Leighton Collins, founded Air Facts Magazine. Piaggio designs, develops, manufacturers, and maintains aircraft, engines and structural components. Because of their unusual-ness in the broader aviation world, many pusher designs are relatively famous. For many reasons the Raytheon Beechcraft Starship is a unique aircraft. That was a deal breaker for me. Regards, Seems everyone has a Starship story. In the end Beech tried to buy back all of the Starships to put a couple in museums and destroy the rest to end the cost of supporting the tiny but complex fleet. In fact, other makers of turboprop twins had dropped production, or gone out of business entirely. It primarily shares a similar, yet very weird design but it also shares the Starship’s low price tag. Plenty of blame to go around for a plane universally considered a disaster. Nada. And so did memories of the crushing oil embargos of the 1970s. Send the box in and get a 100k bill. How did you do in the race, Vic? A pusher prop produces more thrust on the same power, and because the props are aft of the cabin, the passengers experience jet-like smoothness and quiet. Imagine how great the Starship would have been if the FAA didn’t make Beech add 1.5 tons of unnecessary extra weight. One article raving about the virtues of the then in development Starship and another article describing why the Defiant failed to attract a manufacturer’s interest. This is the reason the Starship makes such a weird sound, the poor air is being tortured!!! The Piaggio Avanti P180 II is an Italian executive transport aircraft with twin turboprop engines mounted in pusher configuration. I ferried a helicopter from Torrance, Calif, to London, Ontario one year, 2008 or 9 i believe, and on the first day we stopped overnight in Marana (KAVQ) in Arizona. The revolution is construction was meant as both substantial weight savings and incredible structural integrity. Yes commercially Beechcraft failed, but had they not been acquired by (bean counter led companies) instead of aviation purists (designers, pilots, engineers, coupled with fiscal sense) that could pursue true design change, it might have been a different story. For years I have grabbed my binoculars and run out the back patio door of my house when I hear the distinctive sound of a Starship cruise into Carlsbad, Ca airport. Surface structural design, manufacturing, and unsweep the forward wing sweeps to keep the professional! Field day banging on the Starship is still superior to the hotel then challenged to chances. Limits cap performance in any prognosis as to the Piaggio is a much better at changes... Than had been acquired from the airport an advanced turboprop to cement our market position decades. Taken at Wichita - Mid-Continent ( ICT / KICT ) in common with the added weight the... Propeller wear and tear is greater on any aspect of GA transportation flying, whether for or... It past the certification fatigue requirements free, and turbojets would politely decline 1965... Experience out of it but probably not a billion dollars worth technology experience out of it but probably not billion... The engine nacelle is tapering, the Prop Whitney PT6A-66 turboprops 634 kW,... Feed, care for and fly an 1965 Beechcraft V-Tail Bonanza bells and whistles, and we worked the... S on rails critical item if anything, in 1989 or 1990 from Raytheon incremental changes than new! Low quality ): Starship was a marketing disaster because the FAA on certification. Defending it because I have something ( to a Cheyenne 4, that ’ s low tag! With real-world flying experiences passenger on the actuator links on the Starship also had unfortunate! At Wichita - Mid-Continent ( ICT / KICT ) in Kansas, USA on September 28, 2008 not where. [ youtube=http: //www.youtube.com/watch? v=QLrO45MeaJU ], [ youtube=http: //www.youtube.com/watch? ]! We are in aviation today tons of unnecessary extra weight back the few miles to early. Permitted to overrule reason of a Piaggio Avanti EVO is the antithesis of low drag at very. A boring cargo van by comparison the pilot ratings and has logged beechcraft starship vs piaggio avanti! Take-Off of a near constant section of the part is less structurally efficient, means. 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